Type 2 - Started Afrezza Last Week

There is a lot of bad information about high insulin levels that has been repeated so often by diet book authors like Gary Taubes and people on diet web sites that it is widely believed. But it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. In particular, the link between high insulin levels and weight gain doesn't pan out. Stephan Guyenet has done a masterful review of the research in that area which you can find on his Whole Health Source Blog.

I have massive problems with the post-meal hunger at various times in my life so I know exactly what you are talking about and I really hope that Afrezza does eliminate that problem for you and, eventually, if I can use it safely and if Medicare ever will cover it, me.

But I'm pretty sure that that hunger comes from your blood sugar dropping from that 50 mg/dl rise, not from long exposure to high levels of insulin.

When my blood sugars suddenly deteriorated dramatically, back in the 1990s, I became ravenously hungry every time I would start eating and packed on over 30 lbs in a year. I'd never had a problem with weight before.

Because I was told I was Type 2 I assumed it was the high insulin levels causing the hunger. I started eating low carb because it was the only way I could avoid spending my whole life with the raging munchies.

But when I finally started injecting insulin I discovered I am insulin sensitive. Two units of Apidra would perfectly cover 40 g and my appetite was so well controlled that I lost weight without dieting (scaring my doctor into thinking I had cancer.) So that suggested that for me, at least, the hunger was not because of high insulin, it was because of the steeply rising blood sugars which Apidra eliminated since it worked so physiologically for me.

Now, Ironically, now my blood sugar has become much easier to control than it was for that long 15 year period, but that makes it impossible for me to use insulin as my peaks are about 70 mg/dl lower than they used to be. But because I am going up and down from the 90s to the 140s, I am much hungrier all the time. Except if I eat a very low carb intake, which keeps the sugars flat and elminates hunger (though it also eliminates most of the foods I like to eat.)

That said, there are other hormones involved with hunger, like those incretin gut hormones, and a couple others, including the cannabinol receptors, so there may be other factors that make some of us have such issues with hunger.

I took Byetta (once) and it completely abolished hunger, which was a weird sensation. I looked at my plate of food and felt the same way about eating it I would have felt about eating rocks. Bizarre! Unfortunately, the Byetta also sent my blood pressure up into the stroke zone, so I couldn't take it. But it gave me new respect for the power of those incretin hormones. But interestingly, only 1 out of 3 people with diabetes who take Byetta respond to it. So it would be interesting to know what distinguishes the nonresponders from the responders.

Anyway, I look forward to hearing if the Afrezza helps with the hunger.

Jenny,

If 2u of Apidra worked for you, why do you think 4u Afrezza may not since the equivalency is suposedly 1:2. Your points that T2's are not continuously monitoring and therefore may miss the late spike makes some sense, but if it is shown over time that Afrezza is really safer due to the non utilized or extra insulin in the dose being quickly cleared from the blood, wouldn't it become reasonable that T2's could be instructed to take a correction dose a few hours after breakfast or lunch? If they take, Lantus in the evening, like was the protocol in the Afrezza trials, such a correction might not be necessary after dinners.

Also, given that you have so many smart people, from Apple to Dr. Wang, working on ways to try and make blood glucose monitoring much easier, would not fast acting insulins like Afrezza make even more sense when this technology is finally released to the public. Google and Apple are moving in this direction, so the process should be much quicker than if small startups were at the lead. Of course, nothing is too quick when the FDA is involved.

If this solution does become more widely used by T2's and people are routinely doing mid meal corrections, I think the price for cartridges will also come down as the volume goes up. Having the insulin manufacturer, Sanofi, selling the product will allow both Sanofi and Medicare to get to a happy price over time, although I think they priced Afrezza fairly out ot the gate.

I'm very hopeful this will turn out in the end to be carrying a "whistle" in my pocket with a few cartridges, and then getting into a routine like I am now with the pump.

Just easier.

I have one, and would pay OOP to keep it if I had to.

Most of us get at least 2 weeks out of the sensors (compared to the supported one week), so sensor costs are, in practice, about half of what you'd estimate from their standard pricing.

The receiver warranty is good for one year, and some insurances will replace it annually because of this (A/BC did this for me). So you may be able to pic up a used one for free from a fellow PWD, and save that cost. Unfortunately, I've already given mine away :-(

Will,

My blood sugar control changed dramatically a couple years ago for reasons that my doctor never could explain (though we did a lot of tests). So food that used to send me up to 275 mg/dl now is only sending me up to 200 and a lot of foods that were sending me up to 225 are now just putting me at 150 mg/dl. This is wonderful in many ways, but it means I no longer can use that 2 u insulin dose and the threat of hypos makes it a bad idea to use any injected fast-acting.

I don't think Apple and Google are anywhere near having any kind of nonintrusive blood sugar monitoring capacity. I'm not sure where people get that idea. They can communicate with intrusive devices but that is all.

And given how tough it is for people with Type 2 diabetes to even get enough test strips to test after meals, the idea that they will be given access to high tech blood sugar monitoring tools is a fantasy.

People with Type 2 are not going to be doing corrections. To do corrections you have to have an understanding of how blood sugar works that is way beyond the understanding 95% of people with Type 2 diabetes have of their condition.

So I think it is very likely that you will just have doctor prescribing some fixed dose, often with no relationship to what the person actually might need, and telling them to use it before the meal. End of story.

The gap between what would make sense for people with Type 2 and how they are actually treated is so huge that peering into it for too much time makes me so angry that I have to go do something else for a few months before I can come back to it.

I can confirm that for corrections alone, Afrezza doesn't work great for me.

Last night I was at 145, so I took 8U of Afrezza, and at 1hr I was at 131. That's nothing like a number of the type 1s using Afrezza, and also not comparable to what happens when I take 8U of Humalog without a meal. I'll drop around 70 points with 8U of Humalog and no meal, and 60 of that is usually within the hour.

New Report 3/16

I added metformin back today just to see if I have a reaction to it. So far so good! And wow, it makes afrezza work 3X better!

I took 8U afrezza at a 118 mg/dl reading. I ate 30 carbs. I would normally dose 9U for this of Humalog. I expected after 2 hours to be around 120-125 with this dose of afrezza, and would have been around 100 with 9U of humalog.

I just checked and was at 77!!!! That's with just 1000mg of metformin today!

Another update 3/17! I wanted to really test afrezza today, so I went to fast food/carb heaven -- taco bell.

2 soft tacos, and a steak quesadilla. I took 500mg of Metformin, 16U afrezza - before meal, and 8U afrezza 40 mins after last bite

BG was 105 at start, and 114 1.5 hours later. 3 hours, I was at 132 (fat spike), and 4U of afrezza later, I was at 114 again in 4 hours. This would have been in the 170s for sure had I used afrezza alone after 1.5 hours. I am amazed what metformin does in conjunction with Afrezza.

Thankfully I took Metformin for 4 months before starting the other orals, and had no issues/rash or change in liver enzymes which i why I am still willing to test it. I am just shocked right now at how well Afrezza can work when your resistance is lessened.

Fascinating... I'll have to keep that in mind if I am getting wonky results at first...

yeah. and if i can increase my dose up to 1500mg a day the results might be even better!

Pat, Are you taking the ER or the regular form of Metformin? I believe that 2000 mg is the dose of ER usually prescribed for a larger man.

But it's good that you can see how powerful metformin is in reducing the need for insulin.

I'm insulin sensitive, but I take metformin because without it I am very hungry all the time, even on a very low carb diet. I found that it lowered the dose of insulin I needed to cover 40 grams of carbs from 3 units to 2 units.

Since I am insulin sensitive, I believe this reflects its ability to stop the liver from dumping glucose at meal times. Whatever it is, there are some studies showing that metformin is actually helpful for people with Type 1 because of this action.

Does metformin go bad ? I have a bottle from 2012 that I was initially prescribed then told to discontinue the next day. I wouldn't mind adding it to the experiments here...

Pat, you're T2 with a fair degree of IR. That's me too.

I find my IR can be really weird some times. I can have a high and dump an oil barrel full of insulin in my system and nothing seems to happen.

I imagine this is what's going on. I'd be interested in what time of day you did that ineffective correction, as that may provide some insight.

However, it simply isn't the case that the insulin was different somehow. Rather, it was simply ineffective for other metabolic reasons.

One thing about Afrezza I look FORWARD to is being able to react faster and more dynamically to these oddball IR situations, which I encounter probably once a week or so.

With Afrezza, when I don't see any significant effect from a correction dose, I can correct again in 45-60 minutes.

With Humalog, I don't "know" my reaction is unusually resistant for hours, because while my BG is staying up there, the pump says there's still lots of insulin waiting to bring it down. Usually can't correct again meaningfully for 3 hours after the initial correction.

Me, I'll be quite comfortable with the speed of clearance after I've tried it myself and seen the same results all of you have. Then, when I have a stubborn high, I'll just keep correcting, once and hour, until it comes down.

Here you go, Pat! Today was just such a day. Look at this G4 graph:

I took 20U @ 7AM to correct a 150, plus enough to cover my regular morning cup of coffee (I bolus for 25g carb, even though there are no carbs in my coffee).

When I have Afrezza, after I've done a thorough job characterizing how it works uniquely in ME, Id be hitting that correction again and again at 8, 9, and 10 am as needed.

As it stood, my pump wouldn't decide I could administer any more meaningful insulin until 11AM, mainly because of the 25g "virtual carb" part of the bolus.

The primary issue with drug expiration is potency. The FDA mandates that manufacturers provide expiration dates for which the drug is presumably 100% effective and full-strength up to that date.

Beyond expiration, the only problem for the vast majority of medicines is simply a loss of potency, and therefore efficacy. Except for a very few drugs that can change chemically and become toxic (nothing we take as diabetics), there's little to fear from taking an expired drug other than it won't work.

The three main enemies of the integrity of most substances are heat, light, and time -- in that order. Same with pharmaceuticals. Even though the vast majority of people don't, storing all drugs in the fridge, unless explicitly instructed not to, is very beneficial. They will with certainty last well beyond their official expiration date. I keep my meds in the fridge, and just pull them out weekly to refill a daily pill minder, then take it that way each day (very convenient, especially when you're taking a metformin, 81mg aspirin, vitamin, and atorvastatin every morning).

If it were me, I'd take that 2012 met, but consult a pharmacist first to be sure. I'll bet its still pretty good, so long as it hasn't been exposed to a lot of heat over it's time in your posession.

I'm just taking the regular because that's all I have right now.

I was taking the ER when I was on the Janumet and I preferred the ER and will likely go back to it at my next Dr appt.

It's very interesting how well the metformin is working in conjunction with Afrezza/Humalog/Lantus. I am shocked honestly.

Today I ate Chicken Parm w/ Spaghetti and half of the garlic bread. This was a rather large serving. Didn't go over 132, and was down in the 90s in 4 hours.

Then at dinner I ate lasagne and a salad w/ ranch! I forgot to check at 1hr, but at 2hrs I was at 71. Will check in 45 mins for the 3 hr mark. I know lasagne usually has a later spike, but that's never been the case for me in the past, so I ate a cutie 9carbs, and I think I'll be good hovering around 100.

Oy. I read a study abstract and conclusion summary recently that underscores your comments regarding the gap between T2 treatment needs versus actuals. It was in regard to PCP understandings and attitudes. It wasn’t a doctor-bashing study. Just an examination of the state of things. But it echoed comments I’ve read here. Doctors are human and usually not diabetic so their awareness and sensitivities are often not ideal (where often implies better than people like me, but not as good as diabetics and Endos).

Ok, I got a Glooko today, So I can show some nifty graphs. The first is the last few days taking Afrezza/Metformin/Humalog

And the 2nd is taking Afrezza/Humalog.

Take not that I have been VERY liberal with eating. One day I even ate two pieces of pie and never cracked 145. Also, some of the higher readings were due to incorrect carb counts for foods I wasn't certain about at some of my favorite restaurants w/o nutritional info.

Pat,

Ilove the pricing and function on those strips, but I am wondering about the accuracy. Have you tested your Gluco strips against a reliable One Touch or other brand that you have checked against a lab test?

I ask because my experience with cheap strips in the past has not been good. The one I originally recommended to my readers turned out to be recalled by the FDA about 6 months later for being dangerously inaccurate. The vial I had ordered when they first released that product matched my meter pretty closely, but apparently once they started building up a user base they let the quality drop.

I ask because, obviously, this is a big issue for anyone who is testing to avoid hypos. I had a name brand meter that turned out to be reading 30 mg/dl high back when I first started insulin and it made life very difficult for me as I was having hypo symptoms, but my meter was reading in the 80s and 90s. I didn't discover the problem until I took my meter to the lab with me when the doctor ordered a glucose test.

Yeah, I test it with the One TouchUlta2 and One Touch Mini sometimes, The results are usually within 3-4 points, but occasionally it's been a 10pt difference.

My main meter it the ReliOn bc I test so much and they're cheap. But I have the other meters and insurance sends me free strips, so I use those to verify the ReliOn from time to time.

Something weird is going on since last night. It's like my resistance is lessening, A LOT.

I didn't even take but 8U of Afrezza all day yesterday. I've been preparing for just Humalog use should I have to stop taking Afrezza from the slight wheezing issues which are still about the same.

Anyways, last night I ate some fried chicken, boiled potatoes in butter and peas. This was by my estimation around 60C. Well, I dosed appropriately, and I was fighting a hypo all night! I had to eat 2 cuties, strawberries, and ice cream. Ice cream usually has an immediate effect on me. I've tested it in the past. I didn't really think it was necessary, but I think the easiest thing to do would have been to drink some juice. It was about a cup of potatoes and about 2/3cup peas, plus the breading on the chicken... it had to be around 60 carbs. The highest I got before bed was 78, From the low 60s.

And today, I ate at a restaurant with nutritional info. I'm certain I had 70 carbs at that meal. I dosed accordingly. Was 95 at start of meal, 1hr 83, 2hr 84, 3Hr 71.

I think it's obvious I need to adjust my I:C.