Ok, what's the difference here between these two carbs?

Hi Kim,

Nope, I didn’t try the bagels. I could tell from the video where I order their rolls (www.lindasdietdelites.com) that they weren’t real bagels. Theiy’re soft like a roll & not at all like NYbagels. Packaged bagels always suck because they have to be fresh. I’m a bagel snob having grown up in NYC where people get into heated arguments about where to gt the best bagel.

There are two kinds of fiber insoluable & soluable. Soluable disperses in water (like Metamusil) & insoluable doesn’t. They have different roles in digestion.

Fiber is a tricky thing on labels because nutritionals can be inaccurate. They are inaccurate regarding carbs also & most don’t list net carbs. I don’t subtracti fiber unless a food is about 50% or more fiber. Useless, I think, to deduct a couple of grams of fiber. What impressed me about Healthwise Bakery products is that their nutritionals are independently lab tested. This is rare.

Glycemic index is worhtless for a T1, so I don’t bother with this. A carb is a carb is a carb.

Indigestible fiber isn’t digested at all. It just passes through & doesn’t effect BG.

Good luck on your interview!


I tried looking for the ingredients to see if high frutose corn syrup was in the ingredient list. This is usually hidden/not noticed and will do terrible things to your blood sugars.

I stopped eating sugar long before my diabetes diagnosis, pastelpainter, and I continued making my own bread without using any sugar to activate the yeast. Also you can use natural risers without adding yeast at all each time you bake such as a sourdough starter. I don’t make bread anymore or keep a sourdough starter since my diabetes diagnosis. Not worth it for how little I can eat. My record with sourdough starter was one that lasted 3 years. I understand there are sourdough starters in the Bay Area that have been around since the Gold Rush.

Yep, glycemic index matters! I have type 1 diabetes and I used to think that it only mattered for type 2, but I realized that eating food with low glycemic is the best way for me to avoid highs one hour after eating.

All carbs are not created equal. Our body metabolises different foods at different rates. Refried beans has resistant starch and lots of fiber. So you won’t usually get a spike unless you really overeat. Bagels made from processed flour and any item made from flour spikes me about 100 points for 20 carbs. I have been using the Eziekel sprouted bread and have been getting great results, usually under 120, sometimes under 100 at 2 hours. So even though they are 25 carbs I don’t get a spike. I can handle about 1/2 - 1 cup of beans in chilli or refried beans without a spike.

I haven’t read through all of the responses yet so someone else may have already said this but in addition to glycemic index - are you counting carbs or net carbs. Those beans are going to have a lot more fiber than the bagel. If something has over 5gs of fiber, I subtract the grams of fiber from the carb grams to get net carbs. I know others take the approach of not using the 5 g threshold but half the total fiber grams and subtract that from the carbs to get the net carbs.

Bagels have a high glycemic index (GI) because there is relatively little fiber in them. The carbs in your Mexican meal actually have a lower GI because of all the fiber you’re eating with it, making the digestable carbs lower.


I agree that the actual Gylcemic Index calculation that measures the area under the curve of BG versus Time is not going to be the same for a diabetic versus a non-diabetic.

However, those of us on insulin who have carbs as a larger portion of our daily calories might find Glycemic Index quire useful. Looking at the glycemic index of a carb, as a starting point, will give you a general idea of how slow or fast it will be broken down and absorbed. Your BG peak may not be affected, but your time to reach that peak will be affected, which has tremendous consequences for timing your insulin dosing.

It does get much more complicated when you start mixing foods, calculating TAG, and deciding how to use insulin pump actions, but at 200 to 300 grams a day, a carb is not a carb is not a carb. What type of carb you are eating really does matter.

For me eating 30-35 carbs daily on MDI GI is of no use, so I’ll qualify my statement. I’ve used white bread & whole wheat bread as an experiment & they hit at the same time despite whole wheat having a lower GI. I tried this also with fruit before I went low carb with the same results. Something like Dreamfield’s pasta can be a nightmare.

Gi values are determined using normal people, not diabetics.

I see PWD jumping on the GI bandwagon believing that if a carby food has a lower GI that it’s ok. Not true. Their BG may look ok at 2 hours pp, but they may not be testing later to know the effects.

Having carbs hit hours later is not necessarily an advantage. Not everyone has a pump, so carb is a carb without spreading out insulin to cover some now & some later. Even people with pumps don’t necessarily use the features for covering faster or slower absorbing carbs. Bloodsugar101.com doesn’t believe GI isn’t of much value. I’ve heard Dr. Bernstein discuss GI on web casts also.

I agree, Gerri. “slowing the spike” sounds good in theory, but what difference does it make when it hits if you still spend the same quantity of time high? If anything, later spikes, as you say, can easily be missed if you only check at the 2 hour point, and they can also run into the next mealtime. I haven’t yet sorted out the complexities of using extended bolus with my pump, but still think I will have a preference for simplicity and greater accuracy rather than for being able to regularly eat those late spiking foods. I guess I’ve just given up enough things in my life and then made a point of finding equally enjoyable replacements to just shrug. Yeah, when people mentioned bagels I remembered how much I loved them (yes, the fresh kind, not the packaged imitations), but that’s probably the first time I’ve thought about them in a couple years. Those things you think you can’t live without fade from memory in time.

I agree with Gerri 100%.

I tried out low GI when first dx but quickly realized the GI value makes no difference to me - though I appreciate it might have value to others. I don’t quite get the premise of ‘slow release carb’ because it only means that the sugar spikes me for hours and hours. Whereas a fast release one hits fast, gets dealt with by the bolus, and is in and out quickly, leaving me with much better post-prandial numbers. I’m sure I can’t be alone in this?

For me, eating low GI makes the difference at the one hour point! I used to have good reading at the two hour point (before I started eating low GI), but I would still spike at 1 hour. Eating low GI has enabled me to eat 50g of carb at lunch and dinner without ever going above 140. I don’t spike later, as my fast acting insulin lasts 4 hours and seems to cover these meals.

But we are all different – both the pace of digestion and the speed at which insulin works.

I just wanted to add that when you compare low and high GI diets, it is worthwhile to compare the 1 hour postprandial too!

Finely ground, reconstitued wholemeal flour and white flour have similar GIs because both are highly refined. Lower GI breads contain more coarsely ground flours, are made with wheat with higher gluten contents (typically not North American/UK type) Lower gi breads are risen using natural, slow methods, rather than the start to finish in 3 hours of mass production. The final product is very different, not the typical soft, fluffy bread typically sold in supermarkets. .

I use the principles of the GI to choose between types of similar carbohydrate high foods for example I choose lower GI bread, from local bakeries.(coarse ground, mixed cereal, sourdough risen). It’s more expensive, but tends to be denser you don’t need a lot It . It doesn’t make good sandwiches but on the other hand tastes better and you can eat it without butter or spread. I choose small waxy potatoes boiled in their skins rather than floury ones mashed. I choose low gi rice varieties and cook it as quickly as possible.

. I was aware of the GI before diabetes and used it for ‘healthy eating’ so to be honest it was’t a huge change (just started weighing) When first on MDI, because of the fast onset of the insulin, I often ran into problems with hypos at the 2 hour point.with glucose levels risng later as the insulin passed it’s peak action. I learned to dose a small amount upfront and some more an hour later. On the pump I use extended boluses for most meals.For me it works really well.

The Gi was first developed as a result of testing the effect of various carb high foods on people with diabetes.and many trials have been done on people with diabetes since. There are 2 GI lists from the GI institute, one tested on non diabetics, the other includes people with both T1 and T2. (and tests with small numbers )There is a strong relationship between types of foods tested on people with diabetes and those without.,


No high frutose corn syrup EVER goes into my body - I refuse to buy things that it in there (even before diabetes) because I think it is just not real food. :slight_smile:

Gerri, I hear you and I understand the points you are making, They are all certainly valid but they are not representative of all T1 experiences. I’m not asaying that mine are either, but my experiences are different.

If it’s not the “Glycemic Index” that’s making the difference, then okay. Let’s call it absorption rate. Whether a carb results in a peak 15 to 30 minutes after a meal or 60 to 120 minutes after a meal makes all the difference in the world when I’m eating 60 to 90 grams of carbs a pop. Knowing absorption patterns of carbs, testing 10 to 15 times a day, consulting my CGM every 5 minutes, and understanding the action of Novolog through my pump makes a big difference between BG spikes into the 400s that crash into the 40s, and BGs consistently between 140 and 80.

I couldn’t hope, for example, to eat 70 grams of donuts for breakfast and hope to control a BG spike. 70 grams of steel cut oats in almond milk. and morningstar sausages, however, are extremely controllable.

I’ve also seen Bernstein’s webcast where he talks about how reliable GI is. He does mention that the carbs his patients eat all have a GI under 27.

There are plenty of breads that do not have sugar on the label but are still high in carbs though. The bread I used to buy before I was dx was very basic ingredients: water, flour, yeast, salt. I never saw any sugar on the label. I don’t buy the cheapie squishy Wonder bread that yes actually has sweeteners in it.

I used to buy the San Fran SourDough style stuff. I also have recipes for bread like this and there is no sugar in it. But the flour is high in carbs and that turns into sugar in the body. But, no, the bagel I bought didn’t have any sugar it so it has to be the GI thing and the idea of the flour being a “small particle” with not lots of fiber makes sense too. Just like liquid carbs will hit us quicker (like sodas) than solid carbs will. How I loved that SanFran Sourdough. :frowning:

Thanks Helen!

Very useful. Funny how Kellogg’s Cornflakes have a higher number than even instant mashed potatoes. :slight_smile: Scarey!

Thanks Emmy! I just have the regular Met not the time released. My next plan to to try the bagel for breakfast (since a bagel dinner just sounds weird) on a day where I wake up with a nice number and see how it goes. I take Met at breakfast and dinner. With breakfast I ususally have a glass of unsweetened chocolate soy milk which I believe has a good amount of fiber in it and protein. I usually have bread for breakfast but it is low carb and I have it with peanut butter. I prefer to have cream cheese with my bagel though but I could try the peanut butter too. I have two more experiements to go. :slight_smile:

Yes, I SOOOO miss that too! Or least, I miss being able to just treat myself to something I know I can’t have -even just ONCE and a great while. I think we should get some sort of freebie passes with out diabetes. I would probably use mine up on all bread stuff. :slight_smile:

Thanks Donna.

I was just looking at the carbs. I have seen net carbs on a few items I have bought before but obviously most foods don’t have them. This bagel in particular was fresh from the Whole Foods Bakery so no nutritional info so don’t know how much fiber or not might have been in it. I didn’t know about the 5 grams of fiber rule though to calculate net carbs - that will come in handy! :slight_smile: