So I am on Pump Vacation

and yes @acidrock23 i do feel that medtronic is not trying to improve the situation. they are, in my eyes, as of now, sitting on their high horse of the 640G, which is, again, an awesome thing, but they are not willing to see that there are problems with the technology of their sensors. if i call in to report a faulty sensor, they ask for the serial number, tell me they replace it and done. they dont seem to see that there is a problem with the sensors, they just take the faulty sensors as a normal occurrence and dont seem to be concerned by that.

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Wow! Thanks for sharing @swisschocolate.

Yours is a classic tale of a company failing to deliver on a promise. I hope that Medtronic can get this sorted out for you and other 640G users.

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Just got off the phone with the Medtronic Hotline. This time the responder was very nice, trying to explain to me why the sensors fail, but atm i feel like there shouldnt be an excuse for those failing sensors.
she went on to give me some tips, she wanted to be helpful for sure, but most of those tips have been shared with me before, and i am really just tired of everything.
She did promise that they were working on the problems, that the sensors are too sensitive and in the beginning of 2016 they should be better, but i have heard this so many times before, not sure if i can believe her.
going to try again for sure, and see what happens. keeping you in the loop if possible of course :wink:

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Thanks for the honest assessment of the 640G experience. I can understand your desire to go back to MDI and give yourself a tech-break. It’s too bad that Med-T is having sensor problems. The predictive action of the 640G is the first step towards an artificial pancreas in the real world. Your experience is a sobering one as we all look with hope toward a working artificial pancreas. This is not going to be an easy development without significant challenges. It may take a few years longer than we all hope.

I am encouraged by the experimentation of the we are not waiting movement including the Night Scout project and the Do It Yourself Pancreas System (DIYPS.org). Both of these efforts are home-brewed open-source projects. The DIYPS claim about 20 people now using their closed-loop protocol.

Perhaps Medtronic would be better served with using the Dexcom sensor. I know the DIPYPS system uses a Dex sensor combined with older Medtronic pumps for their closed loop system.

Thanks for the post, @swisschocolate. Good luck with your MDI therapy. I think I could learn a few things doing that; I haven’t been on MDI in almost 30 years. Enjoy your holidays. Can we expect to see an MDI report from you? I, for one, would be interested in that.

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Ha, ha! LOL (but with sadness)! I think it would be the proverbial cold day with double hockey sticks before that will happen! Think of the investment that Medtronic would have to essentially flush, plus the licensing with Dex, the integration, etc, etc …

I think the bigger question is if this sensor problem is unique to @swisschocolate, or one that is widespread and understood by MedT, where they have a plan in place to rectify it.

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Ah, just to clarify for those who might not be aware of the context, Terry Gregg, currently the Executive Chairman of the Board of Directors of Dexcom and before the Dexcom CEO for many, many years, was an executive at Medtronic before moving/jumping to Dexcom.

Terry likes to jab Medtronic with a verbal elbow now & then by pointing out that Dexcom is completely open to discussing licensing terms with Medtronic at their earliest convenience.

I expect the reaction over at Medtronic is something along the lines of “Like hell we will!” muttered through gritted teeth. (If they actually notice. My feeling is that Medtronic is one of those companies which gets caught up in its own underwear.)

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I figured it might also be worth clarifying that one can’t necessarily connect the problems Swiss is having with the experiences of anyone in the U.S. The CGM system she is using outside of the US is not the same as the one that is still :rage: being used in the U.S.

There are two differences. I think most people are aware that the 640G pump is still not available in the U.S. What might be less commonly known is that the CGM transmitter used with 640G is also new. Medtronic calls it the Guardian 2 Link and, while it looks the same as the MiniLink used with Medtronic’s pre-640G pumps, there are significant internal differences.

The sensors used apparently everywhere else outside the US also differ. Medtronic refers to them as the “Enhanced Enlite” versus the “Enlite” which is what we get in the U.S. Since the details about CGM sensors are always muddy, at best, I’m not really sure just how big a difference there is. But the Medtronic Canada press release did contain a bullet claiming that the Enhanced Enlite has “New chemistry pattern and layers, designed for more consistent daily performance through the life of the sensor”. So I expect something different occurs during their manufacture.

as mentioned above, the medtronic hotline today told me they are somewhat aware of the problem and promise an improvement with the sensors in the upcoming year.
also, a friend of mine has just started with the 640G and has used 4 sensors in one week, she is not happy at all. in fact, i will meet several young T1s this upcoming friday in a local meet, some of them are also newly (or not so newly) on the 640G and i will try to understand how widespread those problems are.
as said before, i did have awesome times with the sensors, where they worked perfectly, and now am experiencing again a batch of bad sensors, so its pretty much a thing about being lucky whether it works or not, i think.

Could you provide a bit more information on how your sensors “fail”. Is this something you notice by getting bad results from the sensor over time? Or is there now, with the Guardian 2 Link transmitter, a non-negotiable sensor error reported by your pump?

Also, as I asked you earlier in another context, has anyone at Medtronic ever run you through any diagnostics for the Guardian 2 Link CGM transmitter? I am curious since I am not even sure that this can be done with the new transmitter.

But I’ve also been musing lately on just how much better my Enlite sensors seem to be working for me since Medtronic replaced my MiniLink transmitter. I used to think only in terms of sensor failure, but now I am less certain it is always the sensor which is at fault. Could you possibly have a wonky transmitter?

Huh? What was the rep referring to when she said that “the sensors are too sensitive”? :confused:

My current personal theory to explain Medtronic is that their corporate goal for innovation is to always strive to be aggressively mediocre. :blush:

No they aren’t inaccurate (or very rarely). the thing that happens is that i get a notification on my pump:
SENSOR STOPPED WORKING. PLEASE REPLACE. (paraphrasing translation)
that is what gets me up the trees, or smacks my pacifier out, or whatever you call that in English. it. just. stops. working.
i can restart sensors, but usually my success rate (especially with the faulty ones) is extremely low, and depending on when in the day my sensor fails, i lose quite some time of sensor data.
sometimes i get “prewarned” by notifications that the sensor signal is weak, but i cant even explain that, because sometimes the sensor is at a 70% battery and literally 2 inches from my pump, so how could there be a weak signal?

she basically told me that the sensors are so sensitive that they “hear” other sounds than just the glucose (other stuff that swims around in our ECFV, like idk, protones, Sodium, etc.
so apparently they get distracted by other stuff and decide they are confused and stop working. not my theory, the hotline woman explained this to me like that.

i am hoping to get this done this weekend maybe, or over the holidays, i was so busy until now. i did get that thingamajig to test it i think, but i still have to find out if it works and if i am able to do it on my own. maybe youll find something, either a result or a help note in your inbox the next few days :wink:

It is pretty clear Medtronic will never license Dexcom technology. What could happen, however, is that Medtronic could acquire Dexcom - after all they have been in the mode of gobbling up smaller companies for some time. This could be good news or (much more likely) disastrous news - in case they decided their financial interests would be better served by simply acquiring Dexcom and then shelving Dexcom CGM technology. Antitrust laws should rule out such acquisition, so I hope my concerns are not well founded.

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Medtronic’s sensors are utter tat. They only use a single electoid for starters which is why it can’t continue working if you skip a calibration unlike the Dexcom and things like the Libre. The new transmitter on the 640g is solely a move to a different frequency so it can eventually talk directly to phones and other devices down the line and didn’t improve any of the Enlites issues it’s had for so long.

Now would I love a 640g to work with a Dexcom, yes, but as discussed above that’s not likely. But the issue between the two of them highlights a problem covering the entire medical (and other) technology fields. Far to much proprietary greed from companies at the expense of the patient/customers. The only solution for this is for governmental to force them to behave and all to work via a open standard. Likely hood of that is sadly none existent though :frowning:

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I think the we are not waiting movement and the do it yourself pancreas open-source movement is a unique and healthy wildcard that could keep these competitors a little off balance. The private enterprise/government regulator dynamic was missing the critical customer ingredient. The open source do it yourself movement lets the other players know that they are not the only actors in the market. I like that!

I have also spoken to Medtronic reps at conferences - Medtronic are well aware (and thier reps admitted to me) that their sensors lag behind Dexcom’s both literally (there’s a greater lag when BG is changing fast) and in terms of overall accuracy. They are clearly trying to address the problem. Apparently there’s a new Enlite 3 in the pipeline which will integrate with the upcoming 670G pump. In terms of at least limited Artificial Pancreas capability for pumps, Medtronic are clearly miles ahead of the others, and I am sure recognize that they are being held back by the limitations of their CGM sensor technology (and software). The Dexcom G5 and the Freestyle LIbre are both now certified for treatment decisions - Medtronic need to attain a similar reliability if they are to take advantage of their lead in Sensor Assisted Pump technology.

Joel

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We can stir things up a little yes, but the issue is that while the software could be open source easily enough what occurs with the hardware becomes a bit more messy. A handful of home users making things themselves is ignorable to the companies, they lose more to competition anyhow. Thus it’s more of an issue needing scale, both of production of the devices and also user numbers. To get those it’s going to need someone with the funding to get a pump/AP certified which isn’t likely to occur sadly, which would return us to the needing to make profits. Or for someone to go the whole head long dive into it and get the the bucket shops in China or India to start production of them on the cheap and flooding eBay with them. At that point it would become very interesting indeed to watch the large corporations panic, lawsuits fly as they attack whoever developed it, and the certification bodies after them and anyone “injured” due to them even though those using them know it’s well an eBay cheapola pump/AP etc. Sadly though that’s a big step.

Personally think governmental/certification bodies enforcing open platforms though would both increase competition for the companies (why they hate it), help open it up much further to the open source/community projects, and also lower costs through competition all round for insurance companies and government/health agencies. Probably basically why no governmental type would ever do it. Although personally think the opening of it would actually be one of the biggest steps forward for our care since the development of the pump.

I am having similar issues with these sensors. Hoping they get the problems sorted soon. Great technology but some quality issues.

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This faulty sensor issue is bad for people who are already working really hard to control their diabetes. For me it’s made it worse. And all the time on the phone…!!!

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Alright, it’s been a few weeks.
Went to my endo today, and he totally supported my actions and thoughts.
He says the problem basically is that this company is american. jk :wink:
No seriously, it looks like this pump company prefers to sell somewhat crappy sensors over getting sued. or that is what my doctor said. what happens is, that each time the pump is slightly unsure about the data it receives from the transmitter, it prefers to say: no data received, and after a few times: sensor doesnt work, please replace.
that way the company protects itself from lawsuits against itself, because they cannot be responsible for wrong results of their sensor, because basically there aren’t any. does this make sense?
so here i am, still slightly pissed off about this whole thing, and i will continue on MDI. I am not unhappy at all, and my endo gave his blessing, wrote me a prescription for Tresiba (another basal insulin, i had been using Levemir up until now, which i already had a prescription for). he thinks i will have better results with it. he gave me as well a dexcom receiver and transmitter from the hospital, which i can use until my exams are over in february. i will probably make my final decision then. i still have my pump, but it is in a corner in my room. if i decide to go with MDI and dexcom for the long run, i’ll return my pump and stop my contract with medtronic.
it makes me really sad, i have been a happy customer of theirs for over 10 years (more than half of my life), but if they just cant keep their ■■■■ together then that is my only way (not only only way, i know i can change pump brands, but so far this is my only preferred way).
also, i can still return in a year or whatever time it takes them to fix their problems.

Did your doctor say how he knew this. Because of the competitive nature of the CGM market, both companies tend to reveal very little about the internal operating details of their product. So I’m wondering from what source did your doctor get the details he passed on to you? Or is it, perhaps, just plausible speculation?

@irrational_John No, he didn’t say how he knows it, but he did mention that the sensors are still the same (as with the Paradigm 530) and that that specific problem (sensors refusing to work) does not exist with that pump. i know that it could also be the new transmitter, but he just said it is more likely for the pump to be programmed to be extra cautious.
idk, it just made sense to me…