I wanted to start a discussion for reviews of supplements that we have tried and your experiences with them. They don’t have to be specifically relating to your BG, but also how well you think they worked and if you have found them for cheap. Also if you essentially make your own supplements, like me, post your “witches brew” for everyone.
I guess I’ll start. I will rate on a scale of 1-10 for: Do I feel anything (1 nothing-10 blow your mind)?; Cost (1 cheap-10 expensive); Diabetes Changes (1 no BG alterations-10 back to diagnosis levels). I will also give an overall grade just link in school: Overall Grade (A-F)
NO-Xplode
Feel - 8: Massive pump, feel like you have more energy than the sun to the level that I an other people have vomited if you take the full 2 scoops it recommends.
Cost - 8: Kind of expensive per serving if you pay full price
DB - 9: In my experience one scoop raised my BG (2 days in a row) from 76 to 200+ at 30 minutes post ingestion even with insuling to cover the 6 g carbs.
Overall - D: The pump is good, but the alterations in BG (in my experience) aren’t worth the positive effects.
Comment: I still have a tub of it and in an attempt to not throw it away I have been using 1/4 scoop with my preworkout meal and been having good results.
This is a start. I have about a dozen other supplements I am on and a dozen more I have tried. I’ll try to add one per day. Feel free to add anything you want including vitamins, protein, creatine, ect. Just try to be scientific in your review. If someone else has had a different experience with a supplement please post it. Sometimes we all react differently.
SuFu
exactly the topic I came to the site to find tonight. I’m looking for a longer lasting creatine, etc. with a bit less sugar/carb content. Thanks for posting the topic. Hope to hear from others on it.
For year’s I’ve used plain Creatine Monohydrate, 5g/ day. I add it to my protein shake. There is substantial research supporting the effectiveness and safety of creatine. Heck, I’ve even seen articles for family practitioners suggesting that is ok for young athletes. I just buy a big ole jug of plain powdered creatine monohydrate from my local GNC, it is cheap per serving. I add it to my protein shake, so I don’t care about flavoring or taste. Besides the low carb EAS 100% whey protein I get at Costco in 6lb bags, it is the only bodybuilding supplement I use.
I will post about the differences between creatines more in the future, but the way you’re taking it will do you absolutely no good and may be moderately harmful to your kidneys. Monohydrate needs a glucose activated insulin transporter to get across the cell membrane and into the muscle cells where it acts as fuel. For 5 g of mono to get into the cells effectively you need to take 40-60 g of rapidly digesting carbs to get enough glucose and insulin into your system. If you don’t you put a ton of extra stress on your kidneys because they are having to filter an additional 5 g of creatine. When the doctors look at your creatinine levels (breakdown products of creatine) and it’s elevated it’s a sign of renal failure. Also the amount of water required to keep your kidneys functioning correctly with mono is like 2-3 gallons outside of what you intake during your workouts.
So in summary if you’re not taking creatine monohydrate with 40-60 g of carbs you’re not helping yourself and if you’re not drinking gallons of water to dilute the creatine you may be working your kidneys too hard.
SuFu
I use creatine ethyl-ester by higher power (http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/hp/ester.html). No creatine is “long-lasting.” If it isn’t absorbed right away it’s excreted by the kidneys. I take 2 half doses (1 morning and 1 post-wrokout) to lighten the stress on my kidneys and also hopefully get more into the muscle.
Actually, I believe that the research suggests that insulin drives the uptake of creatine and that the suggestion of taking creatine with glucose is based on the ingestion of glucose causing an insulin response. Since I am diabetic, I get my insulin response from an MDI regime. Since GLUT-4 is central to creatine uptake, taking my creatine after exercise when my GLUT-4 is amplified which should further increase the uptake. I add my creatine monohydrate to my protein shake which is made with milk, so it does contain 12-15 g carbs. My general approach with postworkout nutrition is to take a shake right after workout and then eat with bolus within two hours after workout. I’m surprised by your suggestion that glucose has a role in transport, I am not aware of that role.
yeah, i know how being a diabetic works.
Glut-4 increases are also based on what type of muscles you are using. There is no increase in glut-4 in red muscle tissue, only white. So if you’re doing an endurance or elongated weight training session that does not involve explosive lifting you are incorrect. However if you’re working explosively or with HIT methods then yes there is a substantial increase in Glut-4, especially when supplemented with a HIGH carbohydrate post-workout meal. 12-15 g of carbs is not a high post workout meal. The average non-diabetic weight lifter usually takes in 40-75 g post-workout for a necessary recovery.
Also Glut-4 protein does not increase immediately at the end of the workout, rather it takes 1.5 (white) to 5 (red) hours to see the full effect. By 5 hours, because red muscle should be the target, the majority of the creatine will have been filtered out by the kidneys.
Therefore a high carbohydrate meal in the immediate post-workout setting is essential for proper utilization and uptake of creatine monohydrate.
This is a study of rats. It was not diabetic rats and the paper then goes on to suggest that the carbs may effect those changes because of the insulin. I’m still not sure why you suggest that carbs have a role beyond stimulation of insulin.
Have you read Nutrient Timing by Ivy? I’m sure you have plenty of time, what with a new baby, completing graduate school and everything.
I agree that rats are only a model. The whole thing of carb transport is based on the amount of insulin needed. I agree that as diabetics we have the upper hand because we can control the amount of insulin we give ourselves. However the amount of insulin needed for proper action of creatine monohydrate necessitates (albeit in the normal population) a high amount of carbs to release the proper amount of insulin. I don’t know what your insulin:carb ratio is, but unless you have a low ratio, or don’t mind postprandial lows (I don’t, hence my over dosing post-workout for the positive effects of insulin) there is still a need for higher numbers of carbs.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that to get enough insulin into your system to receive the full benefits of creatine monohydrate there may be trade off of having to take in a large number of carbs to cover the insulin bolus. I am trying to say that there are better formulations of creatine currently on the market that do not require high levels of transporters to be effective, e.g. ethyl ester or hydrochloride conjugates. They are just as cost-effective (see ethyl post below) and you don’t have to take nearly as much to get the same results (easier on the kidneys).
That looks like a really good book and I will order it for the summer reading times. Thanks for the heads up!
PS. I’m really liking this conversation. I started this group for discussion exactly like this and they haven’t panned out until now. Hopefully it continues in the future!
Well, I’m over 200lbs and apparently somewhat resistant, so I can fast, take 10 units before weight workout and maintain a reasonable blood sugar. I’m happy to look at other creatine formulations, I just don’t have any evidence that creatine is dangerous as you suggest. I’ve never blown a lab est despite supplementing with creatine. But my routine is to take it after workout and then eat within two hours, not a big window to have it absorbed and then dumped by my kidneys.
In my twisted little part of the world, the biggest change in my gains occured when I finally went on an insulin. You can imagine how difficult it is to gain when you are an insulin deficient diabetic and you don’t take insulin.
Part of being honest is admitting when you’re wrong. I spent a ton of time researching this and effectively one paper explained it all. Monohydrate is better than ethyl ester. I’m switching tonight.
That seems like a good paper. But in your own defense, one paper does not necessarily prove anything. You didn’t argue that creatine ethyl ester was better for no reason, presumably other, at least partly credible studies, argued there was a difference. I do find it hard to get good evidence for many of these supplements. There is a huge corrupt system in the bodybuilding supplement market oriented towards running totally bogus studies to show that supplements will make you huge overnight. The journal you cited I consider credible. Muscle and fitness magazine, not very credible.
I hope it works out for you.