Best Insulin Delivery System

I’ve been toying with the idea of switching to a system, so prompted a couple of AIs for explanation and overviews

  1. Describe the closed loop systems insulin management systems available

This returned similar responses on Hybrid Closed-Loop Systems and Fully Closed-Loop Systems, so I went a little further:

  1. What are the specific brands and products?

They returned this (condensed):

  • Medtronic MiniMed 780G: This system combines a CGM sensor with an insulin pump to automatically adjust insulin delivery based on real-time glucose readings.

  • Tandem Diabetes Care t:slim X2 with Control-IQ: This system uses a similar approach to the Medtronic system, but with a different insulin pump and algorithm.

  • Omnipod 5: This tubeless insulin pump system integrates with Dexcom G6 CGM to provide automated insulin delivery.

I think I would prefer tubeless, so the Omnipod seems the only option. I currently use a Dexcom G6 - I could always upgrade - so that isn’t a limitation. I am considered well-controlled, 6-7 A1C for over 10 years, work from home as a software engineer, workout daily on either a rowing machine, cross country ski erg, spin bike, or weight machines. One encroaching issue would be Medicare, since I am 64 and retiring next year, barring major changes to our country’s safety net.

Opinions or thoughts?

I started using OmniPod and Dexcom in 2009. In 2019 I added DIY Loop. This was life-changing. No more alarms in the middle of the night. No need to constantly look at my Dexcom during the day since DIY Loop is now looking for me. This year I started on Medicare without issue. Btw, I was a software developer too, now retired. My A1C has been around 5.0 for the last 10 years.

1 Like

Why on earth are you using AI to do your research? Really bad idea in my opinion, though you may disagree.

Tandem’s small pump called tslim can be glued to your body like omnipod and uses a very short cannula and cellphone for control. So really very similar to omnipod in form factor. And it looks like that may also be true of the Twiist using Deka, which should be available early next year. The twiist is the one I am most interested in, though so far I am still MDI-ing.

2 Likes

I started with AI, rather than trying to make sense of all the web pages and marketing hype. It did not end with one query. Overall, my experience with AI has been excellent. It has its flaws, but I am knowledgeable, smart, and treat information with due skepticism, plus, I use other sources for gathering information, before even approaching a doctor. Generally, I do very well doing my own resarch, including using AI, combined with some insights from medical staff. For the AI, I usually use a combination of compare and contrast of Gemini and Copilot.

Part of your response is why I am asking here, getting information that is not surfaced through other means. Years ago, my former endo, likely unconsciously beholden to MedTronic, suggested I use their insulin pump as a CGM. He knew I wasn’t going to use the pump while it still had tubes. It was a horrible experience. Around that time, I think I found this forum, and the overwhelming experience of people here was to get the Dexcom. I did, and I was markedly happier. A later endo was a great source of information, combining both her academic knowkedge with feedback/information from her patients. On the flip side, there is so much disinformation and personal variation, that I certainly would not trust other people without a good deal of consideration and corrobaration, including doctors.

2 Likes

Sorry, yeah, I know you know what you’re doing, and the more information the better assuming no time constraints. And I think you’re correct that AI is so far fairly unbiased by the profit motive, unlike a lot of monetized reviews that are found via search.

But I think it won’t be long before internet monetization seeps into AI just as it has into everything Google et al touch. Why wouldn’t it - “AI, what is the best browser and search engine” - I’m guessing it isn’t going to be Firefox and duckduckgo??

1 Like

I’ve been using Omnipod 5 on Medicare with no coverage issues. The pods are covered under Part D as is the insulin for Omnipod. It’s a little tricky finding a Part D plan to cover Omnipod but Insulet updates that information on their website.

Only correction to your AI summary: Omnipod 5 is compatible with both G6 and G7 using the PDM. However the Omnipod 5 iPhone app is only compatible with G6 (unless there has been a recent update that I missed).

I’ve had decent performance from Omnipod 5 over the years but not 100% satisfied with the algorithm or the fragile-seeming cannula setup. Those are the two main drawbacks I have experienced.

1 Like

Not T:Slim but Mobi.

4 Likes

I really like Table 1 in Clinical Implementation of the Omnipod 5 Automated Insulin Delivery System: Key Considerations for Training and Onboarding People With Diabetes for comparing Omnipod, Tandem and Medtronic pumps.

Rumor is Tandem is working on a tubeless version of the Mobi. Embecta is working on a tubeless pump but the most recent version they sent to the FDA doesn’t have CGM integration yet.

1 Like

Wow. This really shows how far AI has to go yet. It glanced right over all the nuances, and the nuances are where the major differences are.

The algorithms are all vastly different between the 3. One size does not fit all. Both Medtronic and Omnipod 5 use learning algorithms to try and figure you out. They pretty much throw your basal settings out the window and give you very little control over how the systems work. That’s an awesome thing if you struggle with setting appropriate pump settings, but might also trap you in a box that doesn’t quite fit your needs. Learning algorithms are also slow to adjust. They make conservative changes where there are persistent problems. It can take weeks to adapt to changing nsulin needs. That might be an acceptable weakness for some, but it also might be completely inadequate for others whose insulin needs change often.

Between the two, Medtronic’s algorithm is more advanced. It actually tries to recognize your patterns and assign different basal rates throughout the day. It’s biggest shortcoming is the CGM sensors, not the algorithms. Medtronic always seems to lag behind the competition on sensors.

Omnipod 5’s algorithm is the simplest one out there. It really doesn’t learn. All it does is look at the average total daily dose your last pod delivered, and designates half that to be your daily basal for the new pod. So, the hourly basal rate is preset at 1/48th the average total daily dose of the previous pod, then It uses 60 minute predictions to adjust the basal from there. It never gets any smarter than that. We’re back the old assertion that your insulin should be a 50/50 split between basal and bolus, which is a box many can’t fit in. If you take more basal insulin than bolus, like I do, then you’ll struggle to get the insulin you need out of 05. If you don’t need much basal and your daily split is heavy on boluses, then you’ll likely have the opposite problem of fighting lows. The closer you match Omnipod 5’s idea of the “average diabetic”, the better it works, which is why O5 has such mixed reviews. Basically, it’s awesome if you’re “average”, and insufficient if you’re not.

If you happen to love Omnipods, but not the O5 algorithm, then you might want to consider one of the DIY Looping options. They’re a lot more advanced than ANY of the commercial options, but not really sanctioned by the government. You also have to purchase a different model of pods, called Omnipod Dash instead of Omnipod 5.

Tandem is my personal preference and a popular choice on this forum, though not necessarily the best fit for everyone. I think it’s for Type A personalities. The people who want to control all the things and not be left to the mercy of their pump. It does not learn. Not at all. It does exactly what you tell it to do. You are completely responsible for it’s performance, good or bad. It’s largely idle, watching over you from the sidelines. It simply delivers your programmed basal rate until your BG starts to misbehave, then it’ll step in to assist. It uses your programmed correction factor (called ISF elsewhere) to adjust insulin delivery. It’s the most difficult to set up, because it takes some time adjusting the basal and correction factor settings before it really purrs. And it does purr when it’s happy. I think Tandem has to most potential, if you can harness the power it gives you. It’s pretty easy to manage HbA1c s in the 5s with Tandem and good settings. However, it’s a right mess with bad settings. Either you or your endocrinology team really need to understand how to adjust the pump settings to get the most out of a Tandem pump. If your doc has unfavorable or mixed opinions about Tandem, it’s probably not a good choice if you need adjustment help.

This synopsis also completely failed to mention Tandem’s second pump option, Mobi. I’ve used both T:slim and Mobi, and my preference is definitely for Mobi. It’s half the size and 1/4 the weight of T:slim. It’s more water resistant. In fact, it has the same water resistance rating as Omnipod. It can also be affixed to you for the “nearly tubeless” experience, like Omnipod, rather than stuffed in a pocket or clipped to your clothes. Though you can wear it that way too, if you want. It’s nice to have options. It charges lightning fast wirelessly. The cartridge is easier to fill and load. And you have complete pump control from your phone. Unfortunately, there’s only iPhone compatibility right now, with Android expected early in the coming year. It does hold less insulin than T:slim, 200 units vs 300 units, but that shouldn’t be a concern if you’re considering Omnipod. One big advantage Mobi has over Omnipod is a multi-function button on the pump itself. It allows you to maintain a lot of control over the pump when you’re away from the phone/PDM. You can bolus with that button, through a series of button presses, as well as snooze alerts and even check the current pump status.

All those differences and I didn’t even go down the rabbit holes of infusion set/cannula options, insurance coverage, DME vs pharmacy channel decisions, warranty commitment period before your eligible for a new pump again through insurance…

This list doesn’t even mention iLet, which is another top 5 contender. This is the easiest, most stress free option. No settings to futz with and no carb counting. You pretty much just tell it what you weigh and announce when you’re eating. You say whether it’s a small, normal, or large amount of carbs, compared to what you’d usually eat, but no need to be more specific. It handles the rest from there. It has the same slow to adjust and learn you caveat as the other learning systems. It’s not been well-received by experienced pumpers who didn’t like being told you can’t bolus when/if you’re high, but first time pumpers seem to really enjoy it. If you feel burdened from managing your diabetes and just want to significantly lighten the load, then it might be a really good fit.

This is probably getting long enough, but there are other pumps either already FDA approved or pending, due to be released any daynow. You waited this long, maybe your dream pump is a just a few more months away? Modular Medical’ Modd1, Pharmasens Niia Essentials, Sequel Med Tech’s Twiist pump… Tandem also has a fully tubeless infusion set option for Mobi and an updated version of the T:slim, as well as a major Control-IQ update, planned for 2025.

9 Likes

Only things I’d add are:

  1. Robyn mentions infusion sets. Omnipod has only one type, Medtronic and Tandem multiple sets. The variability/unreliability of infusion can be a major pain point in pumping.
  2. Possibly a minor issue, but Mobi, while wonderfully light and small, ties you closely to your iPhone. Have to have it with you and charged up at all times and have to take it out to do anything significant with the pump. Yes, the pump can operate out of range of the phone, but you won’t know what’s going on.
  3. Omnipod is the easiest to try. You’re never committed long term. Tandem is returnable within a 90-day window then you’re locked in. Assume the same is true of Medtronic and iLet but no experience with them. Twiist, I think, announced they will follow the Omnipod model and be a pharmacy item rather than durable equipment.
2 Likes

I’ve been following this discussion as I am on the lookout for a replacement for my eight year-old DIY Loop/Medtronic pump system. Sequel’s prospective Twiist pump features an FDA-approved Loop version as a strong candidate. However, its stated intention to adopt the “pharmacy channel” as the means of delivery raises critical questions for me.

Does that mean that this pump will not be eligible for DME coverage of not only the pump but also the infusion sets and insulin that the pump uses for the Medicare population? The original poster, @JamesIgoe, mentioned that Medicare is on his near time-horizon.

Is pharmacy channel vs. DME designation a mutually exclusive choice as was the selection that Omnipod made many years ago? Sequel’s Twiist long-lasting hardware (one portion of the entire assembly) appears to satisfy Medicare’s DME durability definition. I’ve seen zero discussion of this point. Has Sequel written off the entire Medicare insulin pump DME market?

2 Likes

What do you mean by fragile cannula setup? I’ve nver had an issue

Maybe but only for Medicare Part B. I’ve seen a clause that says if something is supposed to be covered under Part B it can’t be supplied under Part D. Using insulin for a pump as an example it seems like that clause has been unenforceable because the computer processing part D claims can’t check the databases with Part B claims. And generally people get their pump insulin from a different supplier from the one they get their pump supplies from so its not enough money to justify a court case over it. Medicare Advantage plans are pushing hard to move pump supplies and CGMs to the pharmacy channel so the economics might mean most new pumps come to the pharmacy.

On the Twiist, they missed their 2024 release unless there’s a christmas miracle. And their FDA approved version of Loop doesn’t include auto boluses.

2 Likes

I’ve had occasional pods that develop leakage around the cannula. Sometimes that is after a pod is bumped and other times it happens right from the get go, assumed because the cannula did not insert cleanly or properly, or the pod is taped on a jiggly bit of flesh allowing slight movement of the cannula. My gut feel is the Omnipod is more susceptible to this problem than a typical tubed pump infusion set up.

The way I’ve self-diagnosed that leakage is a bolus that does not seem to lower BG as expected and/or a TDD of insulin that jumps up about 20% + higher than the previous pods. Sometimes the looseness is accompanied by pain at the site. There are tips out there to apply the pod onto some Tegaderm or Opsite flexifix which does seem to help prevent the leakage problem. Once the leakage problem starts though I have always had to stop that pod and start a new one.

3 Likes

Robyn_H, Thank you so much for your explanation. I help my brother with his healthcare and we’ve had nightmarish experiences with
the endocrinology providers at our university medical hospital. My brother has had the Tandem pump for 9 years and I have done very well with it. I’ve done well partly because I read a lot of medical research and partly because I kept extensive logs for the first seven years. Who does that? Because of all my work, I’ve gotten great results but they really don’t get it. Because of your explanation, I now know they don’t get it because most of their patients have Medtronic. Those providers have the Medtronic mindset, even when they’re looking at a Tandem. My brother’s provider isn’t with the university, but when my brother’s a patient in the university hospital, they call in endo & I can’t stand dealing with them. Also, I feel like they’re in a time warp. I feel like they have a 1960’s diabetes mindset. They didn’t progress. They’re condescending and some of them are bullies. My brother’s provider has truly been a godsend.

3 Likes

Fair points, but I’m gonna be a stickler on this one, because I hate to see anyone trapped with a pump they don’t like. I’m seeing this “90 day returns” thing thrown around too easily lately. It’s only partially true.

Please know what you’re committing to before you purchase and inquire about the return policy. To my knowledge, Tandem pumps only come with the 90-day return window if your insurance allows you to purchase directly from Tandem. Many do not, including my own, and I had to go through a 3rd party DME supplier. (Can someone please explain why any insurance would REQUIRE paying another middleman’s price markup??? Stupid much?) I asked every one my insurance is contracted with, and every single one only offered a 30-day return window, not 90. That window starts from the day of shipping, too, not training or receipt. You also need to obtain a note of medical necessity for the return (treatment just not working for you) from your doctor in that 30 days. That’s really not a lot of time to trial the system if you have to go through a DME supplier. It’s really more like 2 weeks, if you had all your ducks in a row beforehand. You can’t afford to sit on your hands and wait to see if problems/complaints work themselves out.

I didn’t know the policies with other manufacturers, but I would expect a similar situation across the board for DME channel pumps.

Pharmacy channel pumps, like Omnipod and some of the upcoming ones, work different. You likely pay a higher monthly cost, depending on coverage, but no big upfront startup fee and no commitment beyond your 30 or 90 day supply shipment.

And to throw one more curveball out there, Tandem recently announced that they signed their first pharmacy channel contract for Mobi, but gave absolutely no details about it. At least one insurer out there is allowing Mobi sales through the pharmacy channel, though.

2 Likes

I would add that you can have the local sales rep meet with you and show you, and let you handle, the pump. Also look at the inserts. When I switched from Animas to MM 700 series, I initially tried the Tandem. I found the screen difficult for me to see out doors with my eyesight. That was before the phone app. They let me return it after I met with the rep.
I do not use a close loop, preferring my 60 years experience to guide me. In that respect I know I am unusual, and would probably with less experience go with a loop system. I have tried closed loop, but it drove me crazy not knowing what the pump was doing, again - 60 years of diy. I get my dexcom 7 readings on my galaxy watch, and that helps.
And my last A1c was 5.3.
Mike

1 Like

Consider: Traditional Medicare + Supplement or Advantage? Medicare+gap insurance will cover some pumps under Part B, DME and that includes all of the pump supplies, including the insulin. I have Medicare+gap and for the past 10 years I have had $0.00 out of pocket expenses for the pump, supplies, insulin. If you use a pump not covered as DME then you have to check out the Plan D coverage. If you go the Advantage route you will need to carefully review their coverage.
For 15 years I have used tubed pumps, there was a learning curve to avoid snagging the tube and ripping the canula out but that was a short learning curve.
Currently using G7 (G6 until recently)+ tslim:X2 IQ control - A1C in the 5.7-6.2 range.

1 Like

Not tslim but Mobi

@JamesIgoe I’m also doing MDI and planning to talk to my endo about getting Omnipods just to bolus with when I’m away from home. I’ve found evaluating pump systems tough because there are so many red flags I see as an IT admin that I have to ignore because there are only a few choices. And the usual more time or more money solutions don’t apply.

What has you thinking about a pump and how are you looking at the options?